Office 2008 GUI refresh problems

On 7 fév, 07:02, John McGhie wrote:
> I think you are on a PowerPC (non-Intel Mac?)
>
> Start by disabling WYSIWYG Font display and "Show Project Gallery at
> startup" in Word>Preferences>General.
>
> In Entourage, turn off the Progress Window.
>
> I think your system is struggling for power.  We have some performance
> issues in Office 2008, particularly on the PPC currently.  It may be a few
> months before these are fixed.  In the meantime, turn-off the power-hungry
> features that don't add a lot of value.
>
> Get in the habit of quitting applications you are not currently using.  They
> will re-launch very quickly if you need them again, but in the meantime,
> quitting them will free up a lot of power.
>
> Cheers
>
> On 7/02/08 6:53 AM, in article ee8c6b0....DeleteThis@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
>
> "mkrz...@officeformac.com" wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I have installed brand new Office 2008 for Mac Home Edition on my Macbook
> > Leopard 10.5.1 2G RAM 1.83GHz and after first launch I observed very annoying
> > behavior. The GUI with icons, toolbox and everything have a problems with
> > refreshing/redrawing. If I turn off the menu bar and turn it on back again,
> > some icons in menu are not visible until I move the mouse over it. Some parts
> > of menu are translucent or disapeared and then I have to put the whole window
> > to the dock and put it on the screen once again pushing screen refresh?? Very
> > annoying and disturbing! How to fix it? Please help me for that 150USD.
>
> > Thanks, MK
>
> --
> Don't wait for your answer, click here:http://www.word.mvps.org/
>
> Please reply in the group.  Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
>
> John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
> McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltdhttp://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
> Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
> +61 4 1209 1410, mailto:j...@mcghie.name

I have an Intel Macbook Pro bought in december with 4 gigs of Ram.

Just installed Office 2008 with Entourage, the pro version at full
price...

Very odd behavior : when I am plugged by wire to my WIn 2003 server,
in Excel when I try to save, I get an 'out of memory message', 'cannot
find the file', and a 'document saved correctly' message, but after
that, no way of saving the file again...

If I am using our Wi-fi network everything works well, but very, very
slowly and even the typing is very slow ??

Any hint on what is happening ?

LTB , Québec, Canada
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

On 7 fév, 07:02, John McGhie wrote: <br>
<br>
      I think you are on a PowerPC (non-Intel Mac?)<br>
<br><br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
<br>
      Start by disabling WYSIWYG Font display and "Show Project Gallery at startup"<br>
      in Word>Preferences>General.<br>
<br><br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
<br>
      In Entourage, turn off the Progress Window.<br>
<br><br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
<br>
      I think your system is struggling for power. We have some performance<br>
      issues in Office 2008, particularly on the PPC currently. It may be a<br>
      few months before these are fixed. In the meantime, turn-off the power-hungry<br>
      features that don't add a lot of value.<br>
<br><br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
<br>
      Get in the habit of quitting applications you are not currently using.<br>
      They will re-launch very quickly if you need them again, but in the meantime,<br>
      quitting them will free up a lot of power.<br>
<br><br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
I am running Intel Macbook Core Duo not PPC. Very annoying behavior. I have 1.83GHz CPU and 2GB of RAM - I hope that's enough to draw the menu bar quickly Anyway, maybe someone from the community can even tell me where to start, what kind of troubleshooting I can do, because now it make my work more difficult...<br>
<br>
Thanks a lot!
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

Did you try John¹s suggestions?

> Start by disabling WYSIWYG Font display and "Show Project Gallery at
> startup" in Word>Preferences>General.
>
> In Entourage, turn off the Progress Window.

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>




On 2/7/08 10:27 AM, in article ee8c6b0.2.DeleteThis@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"mkrzych@officeformac.com" wrote:

> I am running Intel Macbook Core Duo not PPC. Very annoying behavior. I have
> 1.83GHz CPU and 2GB of RAM - I hope that's enough to draw the menu bar quickly
> Anyway, maybe someone from the community can even tell me where to start,
> what kind of troubleshooting I can do, because now it make my work more
> difficult...
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

Hello Beth,<br>
Of course I tried every suggestions which I was able to find on the Internet. I had Project Gallery disabled by default, I tried disable WYSIWYG font now, but still no help. The same effect, when I clik on my desktop and then on the Word/Excel window my toolbar disapear and I have to refresh somehow the parent window. If Gallery is open, it also disapear cousing tranparent effect that I can see my desktop through the Word window. I tried also switch off transparency, but it did not help me as well. Any suggestions? I have some screenshots, but I cannot post them here I guess. HELP...
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

As I said in my previous post, we still have no idea what is causing your
problem: we've only seen a handful of reports of it.

I don't know what OS you're running? I suggested in my previous post that
you disable Spaces.

If that doesn't fix it, please create a new User Login, and try Word in
there.

I am still feeling my way around this problem. What else is running?

You're using Shared Graphics Memory on that Machine, I think? If so, and if
the Progress Window memory leak in OS 10.5.1/Entourage has gobbled all
available memory, that would cause this.

Cheers

On 8/02/08 3:58 PM, in article ee8c6b0.4 DeleteThis @webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"mkrzych@officeformac.com" wrote:

> Hello Beth,
> Of course I tried every suggestions which I was able to find on the Internet.
> I had Project Gallery disabled by default, I tried disable WYSIWYG font now,
> but still no help. The same effect, when I clik on my desktop and then on the
> Word/Excel window my toolbar disapear and I have to refresh somehow the parent
> window. If Gallery is open, it also disapear cousing tranparent effect that I
> can see my desktop through the Word window. I tried also switch off
> transparency, but it did not help me as well. Any suggestions? I have some
> screenshots, but I cannot post them here I guess. HELP...

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

Well, YOU don't have the GUI Refresh problem!

Guys/Gals: Please don't hijack threads like that. It is likely to get your
question missed. The people in here are scanning very fast at the moment:
they won't even open a message if the headline is not within their area of
expertise. So if you hijack a thread with an unrelated problem, the person
who could have answered it may never see your message.

In your case, you have a network problem. I am wondering whether both
network paths could be open at the same time?

Please try turning your Airport OFF while connected by wire, and see if
things suddenly improve. While you are doing that, I will have time to get
home and try a few things on MY Windows 2003 server

Hope this helps


On 8/02/08 2:20 AM, in article
52e8f8d6-7e88-4424-bd15-4de674d07c4b.DeleteThis@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
" " wrote:

> On 7 fév, 07:02, John McGhie wrote:
>> I think you are on a PowerPC (non-Intel Mac?)
>>
>> Start by disabling WYSIWYG Font display and "Show Project Gallery at
>> startup" in Word>Preferences>General.
>>
>> In Entourage, turn off the Progress Window.
>>
>> I think your system is struggling for power.  We have some performance
>> issues in Office 2008, particularly on the PPC currently.  It may be a few
>> months before these are fixed.  In the meantime, turn-off the power-hungry
>> features that don't add a lot of value.
>>
>> Get in the habit of quitting applications you are not currently using.  They
>> will re-launch very quickly if you need them again, but in the meantime,
>> quitting them will free up a lot of power.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> On 7/02/08 6:53 AM, in article ee8c6b0....DeleteThis@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
>>
>> "mkrz...@officeformac.com" wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I have installed brand new Office 2008 for Mac Home Edition on my Macbook
>>> Leopard 10.5.1 2G RAM 1.83GHz and after first launch I observed very
>>> annoying
>>> behavior. The GUI with icons, toolbox and everything have a problems with
>>> refreshing/redrawing. If I turn off the menu bar and turn it on back again,
>>> some icons in menu are not visible until I move the mouse over it. Some
>>> parts
>>> of menu are translucent or disapeared and then I have to put the whole
>>> window
>>> to the dock and put it on the screen once again pushing screen refresh??
>>> Very
>>> annoying and disturbing! How to fix it? Please help me for that 150USD.
>>
>>> Thanks, MK
>>
>> --
>> Don't wait for your answer, click here:http://www.word.mvps.org/
>>
>> Please reply in the group.  Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.
>>
>> John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
>> McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltdhttp://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
>> Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
>> +61 4 1209 1410, mailto:j...@mcghie.name
>
> I have an Intel Macbook Pro bought in december with 4 gigs of Ram.
>
> Just installed Office 2008 with Entourage, the pro version at full
> price...
>
> Very odd behavior : when I am plugged by wire to my WIn 2003 server,
> in Excel when I try to save, I get an 'out of memory message', 'cannot
> find the file', and a 'document saved correctly' message, but after
> that, no way of saving the file again...
>
> If I am using our Wi-fi network everything works well, but very, very
> slowly and even the typing is very slow ??
>
> Any hint on what is happening ?
>
> LTB , Québec, Canada

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

Hello,<br>
I am using Leopard 10.5.1. I upgraded from Tiger 10.4.11. My Office 2008<br>
installation is customized, so I don't have PowerPoint and Entourage<br>
installed, just Word/Excel and only English language. I tried to login as<br>
new user - nothing changed, I tried run Word/Excel with shift key pressed<br>
during the start up - nothing helped, I tried to switch off Spaces -<br>
nothing helped. One thing which I have not tried so far is to delete<br>
Normal/Normal.docm files. I will try this today evening - but I don't think<br>
that's causing the problem?!<br>
<br>
I have now Gallery switched off during start up and WYSIWYG also turned<br>
off. The same problem. Nothing special installed on my Leopard. When I<br>
click on the desktop and after that on the parent Word/Excel window toolbar<br>
is not refreshed (sometimes all items, sometimes some) or when the Gallery<br>
is open - the whole Gallery menu disappear, causing the hole in the window,<br>
that I can look through it and see my desktop. It's like separating two<br>
windows, very annoying effect!<br>
<br>
Because it is graphic problem I don't know how to debug it using Quartz<br>
Debugger or OpenGL tools. I have 2GB of RAM, most of it is free during the<br>
application running so I don't think that the RAM can cause the problem.<br>
<br>
I appreciate any help from you, many thanks.
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

I have forwarded your post to Curt Laird, the Microsoft Engineer in charge
of investigating Word 2008 problems.

Please watch for his response, which may come by direct email.

I don't think this problem is anything to do with the Normal Template
either. I think it's a Sheets/Focus problem.

For power-saving reasons Word uses a Lazy Redraw algorithm that refreshes
only the parts of the screen that it thinks are visible. When it is having
Sheets/Layers problems, it may fixate its tiny mind on the idea that this
particular object is not visible, and thus fail to redraw it.

I think it's a bug. Unless anyone has any bright ideas, we'll have to wait
for Curt.

Hope this helps

On 10/02/08 12:44 AM, in article ee8c6b0.7.TakeThisOut@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"mkrzych@officeformac.com" wrote:

> Hello,
> I am using Leopard 10.5.1. I upgraded from Tiger 10.4.11. My Office 2008
> installation is customized, so I don't have PowerPoint and Entourage
> installed, just Word/Excel and only English language. I tried to login as
> new user - nothing changed, I tried run Word/Excel with shift key pressed
> during the start up - nothing helped, I tried to switch off Spaces -
> nothing helped. One thing which I have not tried so far is to delete
> Normal/Normal.docm files. I will try this today evening - but I don't think
> that's causing the problem?!
>
> I have now Gallery switched off during start up and WYSIWYG also turned
> off. The same problem. Nothing special installed on my Leopard. When I
> click on the desktop and after that on the parent Word/Excel window toolbar
> is not refreshed (sometimes all items, sometimes some) or when the Gallery
> is open - the whole Gallery menu disappear, causing the hole in the window,
> that I can look through it and see my desktop. It's like separating two
> windows, very annoying effect!
>
> Because it is graphic problem I don't know how to debug it using Quartz
> Debugger or OpenGL tools. I have 2GB of RAM, most of it is free during the
> application running so I don't think that the RAM can cause the problem.
>
> I appreciate any help from you, many thanks.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

Hi everybody,<br>
looks like dev people have lots of things to fix, because no response for almost 3 days. Hm, I don't know that I should to remove this office suit from my HD or wait for answer from Curt? At least I can try to remove it and install it once again, but I'm not sure that it will change anything...
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

Ummm... Just to set some expectations

Typical turn-around from MS Development would be about three weeks. About
three months between report and fix.

If there's a work-around, Curt will get back to us, usually the next day.
However, Curt is in "Test", not "Development". Test is at the END of the
software development cycle, so they are much closer to the customers (us!)
and can respond immediately, without having to refer things up the chain of
command.

There's a LOT of paperwork to be completed to get an issue referred from us,
through Support, Test, Marketing, Project Management to Product Management
to the Developers, then back again.

And yes, in today's computer software development companies, everyone is
fully committed 100 per cent of the time. The only thing that varies is the
depth...

Sorry about the wait, but I know no more than you do.

Cheers


On 12/02/08 8:21 AM, in article ee8c6b0.10 DeleteThis @webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"mkrzych@officeformac.com" wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> looks like dev people have lots of things to fix, because no response for
> almost 3 days. Hm, I don't know that I should to remove this office suit from
> my HD or wait for answer from Curt? At least I can try to remove it and
> install it once again, but I'm not sure that it will change anything...

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

On 2008-02-12 04:53:02 +0100, John McGhie said:

> Ummm... Just to set some expectations
>
> Typical turn-around from MS Development would be about three weeks. About
> three months between report and fix.
>
> If there's a work-around, Curt will get back to us, usually the next day.
> However, Curt is in "Test", not "Development". Test is at the END of the
> software development cycle, so they are much closer to the customers (us!)
> and can respond immediately, without having to refer things up the chain of
> command.
>
> There's a LOT of paperwork to be completed to get an issue referred from us,
> through Support, Test, Marketing, Project Management to Product Management
> to the Developers, then back again.
>
> And yes, in today's computer software development companies, everyone is
> fully committed 100 per cent of the time. The only thing that varies is the
> depth...
>
> Sorry about the wait, but I know no more than you do.
>
> Cheers

After I installed Leopard 10.5.2 update I tried to remove my Office
2008 installation and install it once again - no luck, the same
behavior. I tried also remove all preference files and directories with
Microsoft from my HDD - no luck. Would be great to have almost some
confirmation that's a bug or not? I don't know what I could potentially
do more.



>
> On 12/02/08 8:21 AM, in article ee8c6b0.10 RemoveThis @webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
> "mkrzych@officeformac.com" wrote:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>> looks like dev people have lots of things to fix, because no response for
>> almost 3 days. Hm, I don't know that I should to remove this office suit from
>> my HD or wait for answer from Curt? At least I can try to remove it and
>> install it once again, but I'm not sure that it will change anything...


--
Krzysztof M.
I'm a Mac, are you still a PC?
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

Yeah. Word has had "partial redraw" problems for about 15 years. You
didn't want to hear that...

The reason they are so persistent and difficult to find is that Word does it
"intentionally". To save power, improve battery life, and speed response
times, Word is designed to re-draw only the parts of the screen that have
changed.

The issue is for Word to learn when the part of the screen in question has
updated.

Spaces just added another 'n' layers of difficulty to that question.

I don't think they have a "Reproducible Test Case" yet. They need to be
able to construct a machine exactly like yours, then load exactly the same
software as you are running, and then get the issue to happen 100 per cent
of the time, so that they can look at the code and see what is causing the
issue.

Just to make it exciting, the problem often goes away when you add the test
instrumentation into the code so that they can watch it working...

Sorry: this can be very frustrating.

On 14/02/08 3:54 AM, in article 47b320bd$0$6112$f69f905@mamut2.aster.pl,
"Krzysztof M." wrote:

> On 2008-02-12 04:53:02 +0100, John McGhie said:
>
>> Ummm... Just to set some expectations
>>
>> Typical turn-around from MS Development would be about three weeks. About
>> three months between report and fix.
>>
>> If there's a work-around, Curt will get back to us, usually the next day.
>> However, Curt is in "Test", not "Development". Test is at the END of the
>> software development cycle, so they are much closer to the customers (us!)
>> and can respond immediately, without having to refer things up the chain of
>> command.
>>
>> There's a LOT of paperwork to be completed to get an issue referred from us,
>> through Support, Test, Marketing, Project Management to Product Management
>> to the Developers, then back again.
>>
>> And yes, in today's computer software development companies, everyone is
>> fully committed 100 per cent of the time. The only thing that varies is the
>> depth...
>>
>> Sorry about the wait, but I know no more than you do.
>>
>> Cheers
>
> After I installed Leopard 10.5.2 update I tried to remove my Office
> 2008 installation and install it once again - no luck, the same
> behavior. I tried also remove all preference files and directories with
> Microsoft from my HDD - no luck. Would be great to have almost some
> confirmation that's a bug or not? I don't know what I could potentially
> do more.
>
>
>
>>
>> On 12/02/08 8:21 AM, in article ee8c6b0.10 RemoveThis @webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
>> "mkrzych@officeformac.com" wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everybody,
>>> looks like dev people have lots of things to fix, because no response for
>>> almost 3 days. Hm, I don't know that I should to remove this office suit
>>> from
>>> my HD or wait for answer from Curt? At least I can try to remove it and
>>> install it once again, but I'm not sure that it will change anything...
>

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems 

Hm, partial redraw you are saying - nice. But it seems that these algos
were used also in Excel and PowerPoint, because I have abserved the
same behavior. I didn't have such problems in Office 2004. To top the
things off, this piece of software is commercial, so I don't understand
why they decided to use some part of code which could potentialy make
problems in the future? You go to the shop, buying something for 150USD
and you have problems, bad idea! It like treating customers as a early
beta testers, right?
But anyway, I can help to find what is causing the glitch, but I need
some directions from one of the dev guy and we can try to reproduce
everything.

Thank you very much John for your information.

On 2008-02-14 04:28:38 +0100, John McGhie said:

> Yeah. Word has had "partial redraw" problems for about 15 years. You
> didn't want to hear that...
>
> The reason they are so persistent and difficult to find is that Word does it
> "intentionally". To save power, improve battery life, and speed response
> times, Word is designed to re-draw only the parts of the screen that have
> changed.
>
> The issue is for Word to learn when the part of the screen in question has
> updated.
>
> Spaces just added another 'n' layers of difficulty to that question.
>
> I don't think they have a "Reproducible Test Case" yet. They need to be
> able to construct a machine exactly like yours, then load exactly the same
> software as you are running, and then get the issue to happen 100 per cent
> of the time, so that they can look at the code and see what is causing the
> issue.
>
> Just to make it exciting, the problem often goes away when you add the test
> instrumentation into the code so that they can watch it working...
>
> Sorry: this can be very frustrating.
>
> On 14/02/08 3:54 AM, in article 47b320bd$0$6112$f69f905@mamut2.aster.pl,
> "Krzysztof M." wrote:
>
>> On 2008-02-12 04:53:02 +0100, John McGhie said:
>>
>>> Ummm... Just to set some expectations
>>>
>>> Typical turn-around from MS Development would be about three weeks. About
>>> three months between report and fix.
>>>
>>> If there's a work-around, Curt will get back to us, usually the next day.
>>> However, Curt is in "Test", not "Development". Test is at the END of the
>>> software development cycle, so they are much closer to the customers (us!)
>>> and can respond immediately, without having to refer things up the chain of
>>> command.
>>>
>>> There's a LOT of paperwork to be completed to get an issue referred from us,
>>> through Support, Test, Marketing, Project Management to Product Management
>>> to the Developers, then back again.
>>>
>>> And yes, in today's computer software development companies, everyone is
>>> fully committed 100 per cent of the time. The only thing that varies is the
>>> depth...
>>>
>>> Sorry about the wait, but I know no more than you do.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>
>> After I installed Leopard 10.5.2 update I tried to remove my Office
>> 2008 installation and install it once again - no luck, the same
>> behavior. I tried also remove all preference files and directories with
>> Microsoft from my HDD - no luck. Would be great to have almost some
>> confirmation that's a bug or not? I don't know what I could potentially
>> do more.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 12/02/08 8:21 AM, in article ee8c6b0.10 DeleteThis @webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
>>> "mkrzych@officeformac.com" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>> looks like dev people have lots of things to fix, because no response for
>>>> almost 3 days. Hm, I don't know that I should to remove this office suit
>>>> from
>>>> my HD or wait for answer from Curt? At least I can try to remove it and
>>>> install it once again, but I'm not sure that it will change anything...


--
Krzysztof M.
I'm a Mac, are you still a PC?
 >> Stay informed about: Office 2008 GUI refresh problems